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Up Topic C1 Information / FAQs / How do I overhaul a Starter Motor?
- - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 10:36
Some pictures from my recent starter motor overhaul.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 10:38 Edited 08.06.10 11:29
Removed the two bolts and removed the section housing the brushes.  Note the picture was after a good clean up using Gunk.  You will probably find it's clogged up with oil and carbon but it's easy to clean with a stiff brush.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 10:48 Edited 08.06.10 11:29
Split the casing at the spline end - it's just a push fit with an O ring.  Rotor is stiffer to remove than you might think due to the magnetic force.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 10:50
Removed 'washer' and popped out oil seal with a screwdriver and replaced with new one.  It's just a push fit.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 10:53 Edited 08.06.10 11:30
Here's the commutator.  Not too badly worn so I decided to have a go at polishing it up using wet n dry paper.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 10:56
Popped the commutator into a battery drill and used a strip of wet n dry against a thin steel rule to polish the commutator.  I worked through the grades starting with around 200 and finishing with 1200 grade paper.  Not really how you are supposed to do it I know but it was the best I could do with the tools available.  Time will tell if it's a reasonable compromise.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 10:57
Finished article - sorry about the focus.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 11:00
OK - now turning to the brushes.  You can see how worn they were.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 11:01 Edited 08.06.10 11:04
Removed the two screws holding in the brush holder.  You also need to unsolder the joint between the brush holder and the live terminal on the starter housing.  You will need a powerful soldering iron, or do what I did and heat the tip of the terminal in a blow torch flame and allow conduction to melt the solder.  Worked a treat.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 11:06
With the brush holder out, I cut off the old brushes leaving the copper tab in place to solder onto.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 11:08 Edited 08.06.10 11:31
The new brushes (and oil seal).  Just soldered them to the copper tabs.  Keep things as clean as possible and be careful not to use too much solder else it wicks up the braid and makes it too stiff.
Parent - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 11:09
All back together and resoldered to live terminal in housing.
Parent - - By Pedro Date 08.06.10 11:27
Now for the tricky bit.  Getting the rotor back in was a pig.  Picking up on a tip from Dave I tied back each brush with dental floss BEFORE putting the holder back in the housing.  This helped but I still needed to file off about 1.5mm from each brush to get it to fit.  It took ages but eventually it went in.  Reassembly is just the reverse process but there is a lug on the splined end of the housing that needs to fit with the corresponding lugs on the cylindrical part of the casing.  Once back on the bike it worked a treat - don't know for how long, but at only £17 for the brushes and oil seal I thought it was worth a go.
Parent - By simonr Date 08.06.10 12:31
I thought this was an excellent article. Disappointed, however, to see that you ruined a picture of a C30 in repairing the starter-motor :)
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 08.06.10 14:08
Great-thanks for the full explanation and pics.
Does anyone happen to know the original length of the OEM brushes? might be good to file down any new ones to that length before trying to replace them.
Parent - - By superted Date 08.06.10 22:41
I don't think they're too long, probably exactly the right length with nothing to spare. I found that they needed the merest brush with a file, and as far as I know B-o-B didn't need to touch his at all

Incidentally, it's not a good idea to use wet and dry because the carborundum particles can remain in the brass (because it's softer) and then wear out the brushes prematurely. Better to use sand or glass paper. Theoretically :-) Ideally the insulation should also be undercut between the segments using an old hacksaw blade or somesuch to prevent "tracking"

Quite agree though, excellent presentation
Parent - - By bolt-on-billy Date 09.06.10 18:21
what would happen if we came up with a starter handle :-)
Parent - By razor Date 09.06.10 21:10
very informative top hole
Parent - - By actd Date 14.06.10 21:14

>what would happen if we came up with a starter handle


Didn't EvanC1 toy with the idea of a kick start a long time ago?

Thinking about it, a recoil pull start would do the trick nicely.

Excellent article - moving it to FAQ's as it's too informative to get lost in the posts after a couple of months.
Parent - - By bolt-on-billy Date 14.06.10 21:48
I discussed a kick start with someone a long time ago but it was down to finding a compatible variant to rob one off. to bump them off you need to get up to around 25mph depending on your variator weights.
Parent - - By aware Date 21.05.11 18:40
"to bump them off you need to get up to around 25mph depending on your variator weights."

You mean that at 25 mph, the engine can start without starter?

English is just not my native language, that's why I ask...
Parent - By superted Date 21.05.11 19:11
As the clutch is on the driven end of things and is disconnected when the engine isn't running or is idling there is absolutely no way you could ever bump start one no matter how fast you went
Parent - - By Pedro Date 16.02.14 13:36
Update 2014. Well my refurbed starter lasted just over 3 years. Actually, it only failed because one of the solder pads detached itself - it was difficult to get a clean joint. Not worth the repair now as you can buy a new starter from Italian eBay for 50 euro including delivery.  You need a small nut and bolt to attach the +ve lead otherwise it's a direct replacement.
Parent - - By Gerard Date 16.02.14 14:45
Thanks for the update And also for the info re replacement starters.

In your experience are the ebay starters ok quality ?

Gerard
Parent - - By Pedro Date 16.02.14 18:20
Time will tell I suppose but they seem ok and it certainly works. The install is straightforward although a tip is not to over tighten both bolts. I did and the barrel obviously distorted a little and locked up the motor. I just backed off one of the bolts a little and it worked fine.  They have a pressed steel rather than cast alloy mount so there is scope for a bit of flex I guess.
Parent - By variobob Date 18.02.14 07:49
But be careful before you order a look alike... they are available in two versions: left and right turning and it is not wise to just switch the leads as you short circuit the electrical system. Similar ones on the net aren't always similar. In Germany there are some who bought some that do turn but do not get the engine started as it turns the freewheel freely all the time. If I get more details on specific models, I will gladly report.

Cheers,

Bob
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 18.02.14 08:53
Given what Bob says, it would be great if you could confirm the eBay listing/seller/item number/model number of the replacement as you've found the right one!
And thanks again for that terrific write up. I'd feel confident of doing it myself with those instructions.
Parent - By variobob Date 25.02.14 23:32
Hi guys,

If anyone needs a starter: 45 Euros = 37GBP P+P included. I had to make some minor changes to  it so it runs in the correct direction.


The left one is as it came to me, the right one is changed already.

Maybe it is interesting  as an alternativ.

If one of you wants to give another live to the old one, I could look for some brushes and a seal. I should have some in spare...

Cheers,

Bob
Up Topic C1 Information / FAQs / How do I overhaul a Starter Motor?

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