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Up Topic C1 Information / Repairs - Faults & Fixes / Coolant in the oil!
- - By Spud Im Irish Date 19.04.20 18:38
Firstly hi to everyone and hope everyone is keeping safe.
So the recent grounding has let me spend a bit of time in the shed trying to resurrect my C1!
Thought all was in order - put all panels back etc then noticed milky stuff in the oil!
Is there a method on how to detect if it’s head gasket, water pump etc at fault?
Cheers
David
Parent - - By variobob Date 20.04.20 09:51
Did you check the spark plug? If wet, it's your head gasket for sure. If the crank shaft turns freely as it should, you can assume that the piston is not stuck as sometimes happens if the coolant passes the piston (in case of a head gasket faillure). If it turns freely, you should drain all the mayoilnaise out of the engine, you could try to flush it few times whith some motoroil and after a few flushes just fill her up one more time: both oil and coolant as should be done in ordinairy cases. Than first please crank it a few times by the starter motor without the injector connector connected. This prevents it from running (spark plug cap off does it too). Now try to start the engine. If it does, the gasket is less obvious. Secondly, if it starts running, check the hole below the cilinder where coolant runs out of the engine if the shaft seal is gone. This should start more or less immediately.

It might help with your analyses. But there might be a better way to determine the cause... I'm here to learn as well.

Cheers,

Bob
Parent - - By Spud Im Irish Date 20.04.20 13:03 Edited 20.04.20 19:59
Thanks for that- the spark plug is dry- thank the lord!- what other route is there for water ( engine still rotating) - just the water pump?
Is RWS  a good repair kit brand? Is there something obvious to look for, if it’s seals failed? Nothing visible to the eye
How do you flush the engine with motor oil? Do I run engine or just hand crank? Also put  in new oil filter then flush or can I leave old one in- flush then change it?
Cheers
David

Btw took water pump out by putting a piece of string through the impeller hole- then used a ratchet strap to pull it out- dead easy!! In case any help to someone
Parent - - By variobob Date 20.04.20 20:40
RMS waterpump kits were okay for a long period of time. I stopped using them though as I encountered too many problems with a) corrosion and b) too much play on the shaft seal closest to the impeller (water circuit). Especialy if the C1 is not moved over a longer period of time (3 months or more) the risk for me is to big. For the sake of clearity: this never was a problem in the past, it started occuring during the last year or so. I was not the only one that stopped selling/mounting them.

Cheers,

Bob

PS: flushing at least the way I meant is: pour the oil in, drain it, tighten the bolt en get back to step one. Just repeat it a few times.

PS2: that the spark plug isn't wet is a good sign but it doesn't mean you are to conclude that the head gasket is not faulty. The chance is reduced though.
Parent - - By Spud Im Irish Date 20.04.20 20:48
Bob
What brand is a reliable one? And where’s a good place to buy it?  Only want to do the job once.
Is there any other check I should do, other than repair  water pump? Or just do it and see?
Thanks
D
Parent - - By aware Date 21.04.20 11:21
Cappuccino oil is not a good sign.
Most probably head gasket.
Otherwise, double faulty seals of water impeller along with a clogged hole under engine. Very unlikely though.
It makes sense to upload some photos of how oil looks and if you have any drips on floor.
Parent - - By Spud Im Irish Date 21.04.20 14:01
Well that’s full of good news!! But hope just pump.
If head gasket gone, presumable engine Pressure would be down? So would pressure test give further indicator of which way to go? What level would indicate one way or the other ?
Cheers
D
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 21.04.20 15:17
just scrap the engine you have and buy another to put in.

Did i mention I have an engine for sale?

lol
Parent - By Spud Im Irish Date 21.04.20 16:30
Cracking me up here! Seriously!!
Parent - - By aware Date 21.04.20 16:31
Engine pressure: not necessarily lower if the only leak is between oil and coolant passages.
Parent - - By Spud Im Irish Date 21.04.20 16:59
So I think you’re saying if compression is good, spark plug dry- then less likely to be head gasket- more likely water pump??
Would that be correct?
Also what compression should I have if not a head gasket issue?
Cheers
D
Parent - - By aware Date 21.04.20 17:27
If I were you:
1. I would check if the hole is clogged
2. I would check oil and coolant level
Parent - - By variobob Date 21.04.20 20:58
What about cranking the engine without a sparkplug and the injectorplug taken off? Would coolant be visible as it will be blown out of the spark plug hole?

@Spud: I will only mount original water pump repair kits. They are sold at BMW. If you don't have a supplier nearby I will gladly help you out. But first you'll need to find out what the cause of the mayoilnaise is...

Cheers,

Bob
Parent - - By Spud Im Irish Date 23.04.20 19:48
Bob
I drained the milky oil- put some new in- removed spark plug and injector switch- no sign of anything spitting from spark plug hole Shen cranking.
Spark plug itself was dry- more carbon than would expect- but hasn’t been on a run in a few years! Only started and turned off.
Drain Hole in the bottom certainly had gunk in it- not sure if enough to block water- if it was under pressure. Compression is at 14.5 bar.
I’m thinking fault is in water pump- especially the O rings that look fairly flat.

What do you think?
David
Parent - - By variobob Date 23.04.20 19:53
So to get it all in clear sight: You put the spark plug back in and cranked the engine up again. It ran? Did it?
Parent - - By Spud Im Irish Date 23.04.20 20:06
I hadn’t, but just did- yes it idled normally
Parent - - By variobob Date 23.04.20 21:12
I stick to the idea that the cause is either a rusty axle of the water pump, worn inner shaft seals or shortcoming of the outer O-rings of the waterpump housing. But in every of these occassions I would expect 'the hole' should start showing leakage once the engine is running (and coolant is filled up to the correct level).
Parent - - By Spud Im Irish Date 23.04.20 21:36
The hole at the bottom definitely had lots of dirt in it- but what I’m not sure of is the water pump itself- if you put a thin screwdriver in the hole (smaller than the hole) I would have thought it could get into the hollow area of the pump- essential as far as the shaft of the impeller- but it didn’t seem to go any further than where the shaft seals would be- is that normal? Could the seals block the hole?
Parent - - By C1ive Date 24.04.20 13:08
Parent - By Spud Im Irish Date 24.04.20 17:27
Thanks for that- gives me hope.
Ordered water pump repair kit from Bob- from what I can see I bet the cause is the 2 O rings!! 2 quid! But will do the full repair kit.
Hopefully also have something positive to report.
Btw saw an old episode of “hustle” yesterday - saw a C1 - got very excited!! Real sad!!
Parent - - By alunt Date 26.04.20 06:58
I can confirm that 4 years later my C1 still has no coolant leak into oil problems. Like yours, my C1 was not used for a few years, during which time the outside of the water pump corroded and let coolant into the oil. Maybe I'd put the wrong antifreeze in at some point in the past and it allowed a bit of corrosion. If you replace the large o rings it should be ok, I replaced the whole pump because I had a spare.

Another example of how c1s deteriorate if unused, along with shock absorbers, fork seals and stand mechanisms in my experience.
Parent - By HelmetHair Date 26.04.20 11:39
I still have my first C1. A Williams autographed by Sir Stirling Moss (RIP).
I haven’t started it since 2014.
When I eventually get it out again I’ll have some work to do!
Parent - - By aware Date 24.04.20 14:11
There is a spacer in between the two seals so it makes sense that you hit something outer than the shaft.
If the hole is not clogged anymore then simply running the engine with coolant in the system will show if it will drip or not.
Check this and come back.
BTW a cappuccino oil is usually a head gasket issue.
Parent - By Bertone Date 03.05.20 17:43
I too had oil mix with coolant a couple of years ago...I changed water pump too but the problem was a warped head.
Most likely due to overheating by the previous owner.

Took the engine out.  Locked it at TDC and removed the head. Sanded it straight with a large sheet of sandpaper on a perfectly flat surface (glass).
Changed the timing chain as well as a precaution.  Bike had 74.000 kms on the clock and an old chain..."m" marked if I remember correctly...
Installed a new head gasket seal and also put on some special silicone sealant. Problem fixed.

The most difficult part was to clean the mayonaise gunk out of the circuit...hehe.????
Up Topic C1 Information / Repairs - Faults & Fixes / Coolant in the oil!

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