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- - By HelmetHair Date 11.09.18 12:41
Will paying £12.50 a day affect your commute on your C1? (that's £3,000 per year)

If so, are you looking in to how to get your C1 recognised as Euro 3 compliant?
Parent - By HelmetHair Date 13.09.18 13:23
Your vehicle registration document (also known as the V5C) will help identify your vehicle's Euro emission standard.
For newer vehicles, the Euro emission standard may be listed on the V5C in section D.2.
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 15.09.18 08:01 Edited 15.09.18 09:10
Ok. Thats pretty clear.
No one would be affected by this, so nobody's doing anything about it.
Although I predict that in the two weeks before it comes in to force there will be a "too late" panic.
Parent - - By rockstedy Date 05.10.18 22:20
I am going to find £riendly test station where emission can be measured ( purchase already small lift which can fit into box to rise rear wheel during test). Other option is to reprogram/replace ECU to meet emission ( if possible), fit LPG, or transplant Honda engine into C1 frame. If all that fails get myself second hand pushbike and fit 100cc 2 stroke engine which certainly won’t be “greener” than C1 but with no number plates, no road tax, no insurance will be no problem. Tempted to get myself Horse!
Parent - By HelmetHair Date 06.10.18 10:49
Good idea.
Hopefully they can print off the results with your chassis number and/or registration number so you can use it as evidence.
Please let us know how you get on!
Does the MOT emission equipment cover all the gases that proof is needed for for the ULEZ compliance check?
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 12.10.18 12:30
Oh i see you wrote to TfL-What response did you get from TfL to your query?
Parent - By rockstedy Date 12.10.18 19:55
They will investigate- it was about 2 months back and nothing more since then! I think we should fight together or will finish with Oyster card.
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 15.10.18 11:39
Whats the latest registration plate anyone has or has seen on a c1 please? I hear a 2006 happened, I've had an 04...I would need to know the full plate not just 05/54 etc
thanks
Parent - - By rockstedy Date 15.10.18 23:18
Just found one 200 for sale on freeBay RJ02FMC which shows as unknown on vehicle checker! What a mess
Parent - By HelmetHair Date 16.10.18 09:49 Edited 16.10.18 10:01
The seller probably entered the wrong details in that advert.

Any later plates available to check? I might have an 04 plate number I can check later, but I'm really after an 06!

Out of interest, I have a 2004 bike (not a C1) that is the same model as that made in 2009. The 2009 version is ULEZ compliant, my 2004 is not.
That's the same bike model-same bike, same emissions.

Now THAT is a mess :(
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 17.10.18 17:10
Just tried a 2004 plate 125.
It is Subject to charge.
Anyone got a 54 reg or later?
Parent - - By 16 years old Date 21.11.18 17:52
I have been a member in days gone by but with little posting as I hate IT. I have owned since new a 2002 C1 200 executive in silver with radio sunroof rear box (with mirror) and pillion seat etc. I love it. It has been maintained by Jap and German for 14 years. I have cracked the ULEZ system at least for my vehicle. It will be be exempt. You need to pay £120 to the homogulation department at BMW (UK) for a certificate which gives all the emissions and send it with proof of ownership to TFL and after 2 months they have come back to confirm it will be exempt. I have no idea if my success will apply to all vehicles in the C1 range but that is for others to find out on a case by case basis. I have however asked the question of TFL to see if all vehicles will be covered and I shall let you know. You need to get a Vehicle Information Letter from BMW in Farnborough .At least this long term C1 commuter into London is saved: I hope the rest of you will be. Some of you may remember me from the couple of old curry trips to Hampton and Finchley Road. I am David
Parent - By rockstedy Date 21.11.18 18:41
That is very good news. So C1 meets Euro 3 for motorbikes then. Wondering why there isn’t any info about emission in V5?!
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 21.11.18 20:00
Excellent!
I wrote to bmw and have been chasing this info for 6 weeks, and I found my old CoC which did not have the NOx info on(125cc) !
Is the term "Vehicle Information Letter"? If you still have your letter can you confirm it has NOx levels on it?
Thanks a million!
Parent - - By aware Date 21.11.18 20:18
Although this issue isn't a problem for me since I live in another country, I felt relief when I read this.
Parent - - By 16 years old Date 22.11.18 07:34
The Certificate of Conformity issued at the time does not include the details required by TFL. You need the Letter described by me in my last post. From that letter I give you the figures based on my VIN number.
CO 0.607 , HC 0.114 and NOx 0.050; all g/km. None of this makes sense to me as I am not technical but it is below the threshold of TFL. Euro 3 did not exist at the time of my vehicle but credit to BMW they are/ were "ahead of the game" when it comes to emissions. BMW homogulation department confirmed to me the CoC would not contain the detail I needed but the letter described above does. It cost £120 which is the cost of 2 weeks ULEZ charge so worth it. Moreover I suspect for the reasons given the detail not on V5.
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 22.11.18 10:04
I am hugely grateful for your response, as I suspect many other London C1 riders will be.

I expect the 125's will also be compliant, if not then the value of the much rarer 200's has just gone up!

Thanks again for the initial post and the follow up; FYI the ULEZ NOx limit is 0.150g/km, so your bike is a third of that at 0.050. The CO and HC figures are readily available at MOT stations, but the NOx was the difficult one to get hold of.
Parent - - By 16 years old Date 22.11.18 10:47
I was determined to try to crack this. I have the original brochure which boasts about low CO2 and thought I need to get on with it.I suffered from the change on the ULEZ checker and thought why. At least I am saved from buying a C400 but I do quite like the connectivity stuff.
David
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 22.11.18 11:56 Edited 23.11.18 14:28
Out of interest, the EMISSIONS for your 200 model will also pass Euro 4, but not Euro 5-the 2020 level-so BMW produced an engine in 1999 that met 2019 standards. 20 years ahead of its time...

I am unsure if C1's will pass the Durability, Particulate matter (Euro 5 only) or OBD requirements (perhaps with an adaptor?), though.

If we can get figures for a 125 then I'll add those to this post.
Parent - - By 16 years old Date 23.11.18 15:01
Dear All
I have just heard back from TFL re the reclassification. Each vehicle will need its own Letter of the type I previously described. You will need to apply to BMW. Good Luck and keep me posted.
David
Parent - By HelmetHair Date 23.11.18 17:55
Thanks David
I really appreciate you taking the time to do this, and let us know.
Can't say I'm surprised that TFL want individual submissions!
I will get mine done too (also a 2002 200 silver exec) so it is ready to go if I need it to!
I wonder who might get a 125 certified first.
Hh
Parent - - By rockstedy Date 23.11.18 20:58
So it is all about MONEY. I don’t want push too hard but think it may be beneficial for all to know  what to send out to Bmw headoffice (V5?) in order to get required certificate? Does they accept it via email? When they request payment for it? I do understand it takes about 2 months to complete.
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 23.11.18 22:11
Ask BMW for the letter noted above.
Send it to TfL  via their ulez exemption appeal route.
Boom.
Parent - - By 16 years old Date 26.11.18 17:58
BMW email is eccoc@bmw.co.uk. They will want proof of ownership (V5) and £120 and you get your letter referred to above. You then need to send the letter with proof of ownership to TFL. They need V5 as The Letter contains VIN number and not registration number. As simple as ABC or ULEZ exempt.
A bargain for a commuter. I think the fee from BMW is reasonable given the age of the vehicles and the need to work on it.David
Parent - - By Alexbmwc1 Date 27.11.18 10:58
Hi, 16 years old,
it would be incredibly helpful if you were to post here a redacted copy of the email you sent and the letter you received from them. I'm asking this to make sure I use the same wording, indeed, the outcome shouldn't be different if the input is 100%$ identical right? :-)
Indeed, I chased them some time ago to get this information and they said that they simply didn't have it... Then again, perhaps it was a bit my fault as I did ask if it was present in the CoC, which it isn't. I assumed they didn't have ways to provide the details.
£120 is a small amount to get the bike exempted!! Well done, I'm utterly happy, will be even more when I get my bike exempted :-)
Kind regards,
Alex
Parent - - By 16 years old Date 28.11.18 07:59
Use the email detail given above and ask for the vehicle information letter I have previously described. BMW will send it to you with instructions to post it back with V5.I am useless at IT hence I make few comments and cannot upload I am afraid as I do not know how to. David
Parent - - By Alexbmwc1 Date 28.11.18 09:15
Hi David,

I did as you said. Once again, thank you for sharing your experience, I hope it will work for the rest of us!

Kind regards,
Alex
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 28.11.18 13:00
Interesting....you have a 125... David's is a 200.... so when you get your letter through please let us know the emissions.
good luck!
HH
Parent - - By Alexbmwc1 Date 28.11.18 14:14
I hope that they will have the emissions reading! As I said, they previously told me they didn't... In theory, they should be less than the 200 anyway :-)
And I will keep you posted as soon as I hear from them!
Parent - By 16 years old Date 28.11.18 15:34
when I first started BMW were unable to help; they now do .
Parent - By HelmetHair Date 30.11.18 18:13
From what I know about the relevant engines, I would expect the 125 to have higher figures across the board.
Parent - By rockstedy Date 29.11.18 18:16 Edited 04.12.18 13:35
Hi David,
Many thanks for your kind answer- It is much appreciated. Did apply for my 125 (2002 exec) and update post when will get some response. So far been asked what info is required and for whom. Did attach scan of V5 in email, hope it may help.
Best Regards
Rob
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 30.11.18 10:12 Edited 08.02.19 15:06
BMW Figures
Engine CO           HC            NOx
200     0.607       0.114        0.050
125     1.50         0.240        0.093

ULEZ LIMITS (EURO 3)

Engine CO         HC            NOx

200    2.00        0.300        0.150
125    2.00        0.800        0.150

LIST OF ULEZ EXEMPTIONS GAINED

Forum name  /Engine/  Year  /Result

16 Years Old/  /200/  /2002/Exempt
HelmetHair/    /200/  /2002/Exempt
HelmetHair/    /125/  /2003/Exempt
Rockstedy/      /125/  /2002/Refused-Current Status unknown
AlexBMWC1/   /125/   /2002/Exempt
TimSlotover/   /125/   /2001/Exempt
Nightman/      /125/   /2001/Refused then exempt after two appeals
If anyone is refused exemption please let us know.
Well done everyone!

With regard to Euro 4 limits, if they were to come into force for the ULEZ charge, the 200 will pass the emissions limits (but maybe not the OBD requirements)but the 125 would not pass.

Euro 4 limits applicable to C1 with engine sizes:

Engine   CO       HC     NOx
Size
200       1.14    0.170   0.090
125       1.14    0.380   0.070

With regard to Euro 5, its game over. Neither the 200 or the 125 meet the emissions limits, regardless of OBD or longevity requirements. 

Euro 5 limits applicable to C1 with engine size:

Engine   CO        HC     NOx
Size
200       1.00     0.10  0.060
125 (N/A, already fails Euro 4)
Parent - - By rockstedy Date 05.12.18 12:50
Just received letter from BMW ( 125) with some surprising figures:
CO:1.5; HC:0.24; NOx:0.093 all in g/km
Parent - By aware Date 05.12.18 13:22
Seems within limits...
Parent - - By Alexbmwc1 Date 05.12.18 18:01
Hi,

I received the same letter today. FOr free by the way, they didn't ask for any money! :-)

Same reading as Rockstedy, obviously :-)
Parent - - By rockstedy Date 05.12.18 19:33
Didn’t pay either. :-)
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 02.01.19 14:13
Did you gain exemption yet?
Parent - - By rockstedy Date 09.01.19 10:03 Edited 09.01.19 18:03
Rejected as provided letter from homolagation team is not acceptable. Back to square 1 now- BMW homologation. Yes - aplied with exactly the same letter with VIN. Wondering if this is lottery or double standard?
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 09.01.19 14:28
Interesting.
Why was it not acceptable?
Was it the identical letter to that shown on this thread, but with your VIN obviously?

Id just send it back in again with no mention of it being refused already. Then hope you get a different clerk at TfL.
Incidentally, what was the name on the TfL rejection letter-who signed it?
Parent - - By Nightman Date 05.02.19 13:10
Finally got my certificate back from BMW in PDF format (£120 for a printed version!) with an apology for the delay. So I've now applied to TfL attaching said PDF and I'm now waiting with baited breath and fingers crossed. We shall see eh? It had every detail about my bike you could possibly wish for but I'm guessing that could mean nowt to TfL.
Parent - - By Nightman Date 07.02.19 22:24 Edited 07.02.19 23:18
Well the 'lovely' folks at TfL has decided to refuse my appeal. Go figure that one eh? I've supplied them with the certificate from BMW stating my emissions fall within EURO3 guidelines (CO 1.5 g/km, HC 0.24 g/km and NOx 0.093 g/km) and a copy of my V5 showing the VIN on the certificate and on my V5 match. How can they justify this is what I'd like to know. What is my next step? Anyone any ideas?

I've replied to their email highlighting the fact my certificated emission figures are all below EURO3 standards and as such should be ULEZ exempt. We shall see what there next reply is like. I suspect "computer says no" might be the road they go down...
Parent - By HelmetHair Date 08.02.19 06:47
Check the actual wording for being ulez compliant.
Does it say "Euro 3 certified" or "below the Euro 3 emission limits"?
If the latter then quote their requirements back at them verbatim.
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 08.02.19 06:50
Their website says this
Minimum emission standards
All vehicles will need to meet Euro 3 emissions standards.

The ULEZ will be enforced based on the declared emissions of the vehicle rather than the age - but generally speaking Euro 3 engines as those registered with the DVLA after July 2007.

Which clearly states it is the emissions standards that need to be met, and you do not need certification.
The above clearly states that it would be possible for a 1965 bike to be exempt, provided the decalared emissions are under the limits.
Parent - - By Nightman Date 08.02.19 09:39
This was some of the wording of their (very formula) letter to me:

Thank you for your enquiry received on 5 January 2019, regarding the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ).
From 8 April 2019 the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) will operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in central London
within the same area as the current Congestion Charging zone.
Based on the information that you have provided, your vehicle registration Y93WKM is subject to the ULEZ and does
not meet the emissions standards.
This means you will need to pay the appropriate ULEZ charge and if applicable, the Congestion Charge and LEZ
charge. If you do not pay the charge(s) you will receive a Penalty Charge Notice.
As your vehicle does not comply with the ULEZ standards, you can choose to pay the charge or use an alternative form
of travel. For example:
• Walk, cycle or use public transport.
• Upgrade to a new (or newer) vehicle model that meets the ULEZ standards
• Join a car club. All car club vehicles meet the ULEZ standards. Find out more about car clubs at
tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/car-clubs
• Switch to a zero emission capable vehicle. More information can be found at tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/electricvehicles-
and-rapid-charging
• Coaches and similar high-value vehicles may be able to fit emissions reduction technology. More information can be
found at tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/complying-with-ulez

As I see it, my very official looking certificate from BMW states I 'DO' meet emissions standards. I will be arguing this. I'll be taking this as high as I need to. It's really got my blood boiling. I would understand, and begrudgingly accept, if my bike was pumping out clouds of noxious gases but it doesn't. It's coming across more and more as just another tax on the motorist.
Parent - - By Nightman Date 08.02.19 11:53
Further to my appeal and highlighting the figures to them, TfL have now made my bike EXEMPT! Happy days!! At least until 2021 when it'll fail miserably :)
Parent - - By Alexbmwc1 Date 09.02.19 18:17
Well done! Why until 2021?
Parent - - By Nightman Date 10.02.19 02:45
Thought I’d read somewhere that come 2021 the zone would be expanded to the North and South Circular and at the same time change the benchmark from EURO3 to EURO4. If they do that my 125cc C1 will fall short and that’ll be the end of it riding in London. I could be wrong and hope I am.
Parent - By aware Date 10.02.19 06:38 Edited 10.02.19 06:55
Exactly this was my worry too, soon the limit will be euro4...
The 200 is compliant (at least some C1's will be around).
It's a pity this safety marvel being phased out.
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 01.03.19 09:15

>>Thought I’d read somewhere that come 2021 the zone would be expanded to the North and South Circular and at the same time change the benchmark from EURO3 to EURO4


Not for bikes-see:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/lez-ulez-comparison-table.pdf

ULEZ checker still showing my bikes as non-compliant...
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