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Up Topic C1 Information / Repairs - Faults & Fixes / New master cylinder and project report
- - By alunt Date 29.03.18 16:03
The last job to do on the 50 000 mile 200 with ABS I’m working on is a very spongey front brake. I’ve tried the usual squeezing of the brake handle and release of the bleed nipple to no effect. Then I tried positive pressure bleeding through a modified reservoir cap, but no improvement. I can hear a squishing noise when I pull the brake lever, which I assume is fluid leaking back past the master cylinder seals.

Just out of interest I took the master cylinder apart and found that the seal was loose inside the cylinder. I think that could be fixed back on if a new seal could be sourced, but the impossible part (for me) to replace is the rubber seal at the end of the cylinder where the brake lever is pushing.

I ordered a second hand master cylinder from eBay, which I fitted last night, but the cylinder on that is also leaking, probably because it’s been in a dry store for years. So I’ve decided not to fit a second hand one but to take the plunge and order a new one. With “special discount” they’re £145 :-0

I hope it works!

It’s surprising how many extra jobs there are to do on a 50 000 mile C1 compared to the more usual 25 000 mile ones I’ve done. Having said that, the engine compression is good and it runs well, although idling isn’t perfect but I’m putting that down to old petrol which has been in it for several years while it was in storage. Valve clearances are good. The only other positive surprise was that the stand works perfectly, I’ve never come across that before, congratulations to the previous owner :-).

The extra jobs included: clutch,  variator, headlight crack, windscreen crack, front shocks, front wheel bearings. All in addition to the more usual stuff, including a new headlight switch at £45 - another exciting moment at the dealer. I’ve learned how to recondition switches now after that!

It has a Datatool alarm fitted, which is very effective BUT a total PITA when you have to keep disconnecting the battery and reconnecting it to shut the alarm up while working on the bike. There’s a service mode but it keeps beeping every few minutes and drives the dog mad!

I love a challenge, and this bike has been a challenge. I’m looking forward to MOTing it soon and riding it round this Summer to sort out any other problems which are hiding.
Parent - - By patc50 Date 30.03.18 17:42
Hi Andrew, it sounds like you've had a few headaches with this one.  When it's sorted you're more than welcome to ride it over to Nantwich - the kettle is always on!

You mention that idling isn't perfect and you suspect old petrol.  My Williams 200 has done 6000 miles, mostly trips abroad, the last one being in May 2016 when I put it away in the garage and started and ran it until warm, every 6 to 8 weeks.  I'm going to Germany again this year so got the Williams out for an MOT.  The engine missed at around 50 MPH and then stalled at some traffic lights.  It started okay and passed it's MOT no problem.  More missing and stalling on the way home.  The valves are fine - you may recall you helped me with those, so I removed all the old fuel and put new in and put some silicone grease around the injector o-rings in case air was leaking.  As it's not taxed yet I've not been able to give it a good test run but the idling is still uneven and at the end of my short test run (around the estate) it stalled again.  I will tax it on 1st April (Sunday) when I will take it for a long run and see what happens - I'm hoping that the problem is simply the old fuel but having searched this site, the symptoms also point to the ignition sensor.  I will let you know what happens.


Parent - - By alunt Date 30.03.18 21:11
I replaced the o ring on the injector so I hope there’s no leak there. You could be right about ignition trigger I’ll keep it in mind. As soon as the new brake cylinder is fitted I’ll get it on the road and burn off the full tank of old fuel, then get a full tank of fresh and see how it goes.

Thanks for the offer of a brew, I’ll hopefully take you up on that when I have my confidence up with this bike. I’ll be in touch.
Parent - - By leonm Date 31.03.18 16:46
on 21/06/2016 I posted the letter below. I subsequently changed the tdc sensor (generic part, do NOT buy from bmw) and the problem was cured"

my 200 with 20,000m on the clock, started exhibiting intermittent misfires and occasional engine cutout while driving as well as occasional stalling when slowing down to stop. in all cases it starts immediately.
  i do also notice a distinct engine roughness consistent with an engine running too far advanced. the power is exceptionally good.
  i started off by checking the valve clearances (all within spec) and then proceeded swapping out the following items with my second bike: sparkplug, plug lead, coil, idling controller, butterfly position sensor and injector, all to no effect.
  my next item to swop will be the ignition tdc sensor
any thoughts on the subject? re-mapping of ecu perhaps? .
Parent - By aware Date 31.03.18 19:57
My oldest bike is experiencing all the symptoms stated above but not always easy starter after them.
I wiggle the ht lead and fixes.
I cut already shorter the ht lead to see if the end of it was the issue.
I did this today and will see how it behaves in the next days...
Parent - By patc50 Date 01.04.18 06:50
Hi Leonm, I had searched the forum and it was the post you’ve just reposted that lead me to think it’s the ignition sensor - very similar symptoms. I’ve now taxed my scooter so I will take it out for a run and see if the symptoms persist, if they do I will swap the ignition sensor.

Parent - - By alunt Date 01.04.18 08:02
Thanks Leon, definitely on my list to check if problems continue with fresh petrol
Parent - - By aware Date 01.04.18 09:22
Clogged fuel filter can be related too.
Parent - - By patc50 Date 01.04.18 11:18 Edited 01.04.18 14:11
I'm afraid my saga continues .........
I taxed the Williams 200 online this morning and having drained out the old fuel and put fresh fuel in the other day (and greased injector o-rings) I went for a run this morning.  At first all was well - no missing at all and I pulled over a few time to let it idle to see if it stalled - it didn’t stall at all.  Thinking all was well I pulled in to a garage to top up the tank, put fuel in ……. and the darn thing would not start!  It was showing all the signs of a knackered battery.  I finally managed to get it started and nursed it home.  It did stall a few times but managed to start it with a bit of persuasion.

Before swapping the ignition sensor that I mentioned in a post above, my next job is to try it with a new battery but I won’t be able to buy one until Tuesday.  I’m thinking that if the battery is not delivering a constant 12 volts it may cause some ignition problems.  If I get a chance tomorrow I may swap the battery from my other C1 just to test it, but I will see how tomorrow pans out.

As per Helmet's info, quite why the ignition sensor should go wrong whilst is storage is a mystery as when I put it away it was running fine.

Parent - - By alunt Date 01.04.18 17:29
I would suspect the charging of the battery could be at fault. If the battery was OK to begin with after 2 years storage but was going flat during the ride it may not be charging and they don’t run well with a weak battery. The other reason for slow engine turn over at startup is the starter motor on its way out. Try a battery swap and see if it improves again, then ride it round and see if it goes flat. Or put a meter across the battery terminals and check the voltage when the engine’s running. If it’s a charging fault it will be one of the wires broken where they emerge from the alternator housing.
Parent - By patc50 Date 01.04.18 17:37
Thanks Andrew - I've taken the battery off my 'good' C1 and put it on to charge overnight - although the multimeter reading on that one was only 12.2 volts.  I will pop it on the the 'not so good' C1 tomorrow and see what happens.  I will do a voltage check with the engine running to see if it's charging okay.  Thanks for the info.

Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 20.04.18 17:43
. Dumb question maybe..,,probably just me being lazy..
Where did you get the injector o ring please?
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 20.04.18 22:13 Edited 20.04.18 22:16
Perfect. Thanks.
Edit:  35p each, £4.95 postage, £1.09 VAT
£6.50 for an o ring!
Parent - - By alunt Date 21.04.18 05:08
I got the o ring from BMW. Can’t remember the price but the receipt might still be lying around in the garage. I’ll let you know if I find it.
Parent - By aware Date 21.04.18 06:07
7,52x3,51 O-RING is apparently the one...
I understand that it makes sense to source it from a physical shop with parts (no shipping)
Parent - - By alunt Date 10.07.19 14:44
Well, everything ran fine through the winter, the idling settled down once the injector seals were done and the exhaust was properly tightened. The Datatool alarm has been removed, so now I can go near the bike without it deafening me!

All was well until 4 or 5 weeks ago, when the dreaded ABS lights came on again! I threw the bike in the shed in disgust and concentrated on getting the other C1 right for the trip to Germany. Now I'm back, so today I got round to taking the panels off to look at the ABS pump I replaced 18 months ago. In that time, water has found its way into the electrical plug and completely corroded away 2 of the 4 larger pins and started corroding other pins in there as well!

The pins are impossible to replace and their residues are inside the big plug, so that's useless as well. So the plan is to take the ABS plug off a spare wiring loom I have, solder it into the bike's loom and source a second hand pump. I'm not sure how the water got into the pump, but I'll be looking at shielding it with plastic to protect it from front wheel spray. Ideally a mud guard should be fitted as well to keep the water away.

I saw Variobob in Germany and he kindly gave me some hints about ABS problems. Apparently the wiring loom can short against the frame, but it's quite difficult to spot, so requires undoing the clamps and pulling the loom away from the frame to look at it properly. In my case the fault is obvious this time, but I'll be checking the loom for future problems anyway.

I'll keep you updated, just in case someone else gets ABS problems. It's a labour of love though!
Parent - - By HelmetHair Date 10.07.19 17:13
Of course if you bought a red 200 WITHOUT ABS you’d be fine!
(See advert...)
Just passed mot.
Parent - - By alunt Date 10.07.19 18:19
Where’s the fun in that? I like a challenge!
Parent - - By aware Date 10.07.19 20:02 Edited 11.07.19 05:36
Driving a C1 without ABS is a challenge; and boy what a challenge...
Parent - By Clunkfish Date 11.07.19 11:35
I've done over 45K miles on mine and I don't think the ABS has cut in once...
Up Topic C1 Information / Repairs - Faults & Fixes / New master cylinder and project report

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